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WWW.RLYACHTS.NET
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RL24, RL28, and RL34 Trailable Yachts
from Rob Legg Yachts
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RL Yacht Owner's Discussion Forum
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Return to the Forum List From Yachting Australia's Website ( no. 2) | Report on Trailable Sailing in Queensland
By Tim McCall, YQ delegate, ATYSBPC, National Meeting, May 2010
Trailable Yachts and Sportboats are still alive and well in Queensland.
Most regattas haven’t seen an increase in numbers, although our National/State Championship last June did attract 25 nominations. There are some new sportsboats being built/purchased, and a few new trailer sailors, but boat sales are not high.
The CCYC will again host the Queeensland Trailable Yacht and Sportboat (CHB) Championships in June this year, and hope to attract over 30 boats.
The Bay to Bay race has maintained its numbers at 170 plus, with all types of Trailable craft. This race is an icon of Queensland, and passed its 30th year in May.
Many handicappers, PRO’s and Yachting Queensland are now pointing Trailables to our committee to get their handicap sorted out. I only had a few complaints at the Nations, both of which were sorted out by reference to the rule.
The ASBA held a successful Queensland Sports Boats Championship in December 2009 with 24 boats on the water. Raptor was the clear winner, with 5 firsts. I would imaging the measurers may be reviewing the results, as Raptor (a Stealth 7, and extremely well sailed) performed some 100 points above its SMS handicap.
There are some new experimental Sportsboats being built to capitalise on the success of the better rating boats.
The Blazer fleet is becoming very competitive, led by a strong team from the Southport Yacht Club. It’s great to see this class getting back to standard boats competing on for line honours.
*******There are several very enthusiastic RL24 owners organising various events for this class, and we are assured at least 4 at the Queensland State Trailable titles. Again, this class is returning to standard boats, as opposed to the highly modified ones of the eighties.*******
Overall, Trailables are alive and well in Queensland, and with tighter economic times, more and more are emerging from the sheds to join in racing, but predominantly, to standard form. The Sportsboats are forging ahead with the Modified version.
Thanks
Tim McCall
I have marked the paragraph where the Rl 24 gets a mention.
I ask, why is the RL 24 class getting targeted by Tim McCall in his annual report to Yachting Australia’s TY committee. What does he mean by ‘Again, this class is returning to standard boats, as opposed to the highly modified ones of the eighties’? I have to ask what is a standard RL24 in Queensland?
I have had a look through the YA Racing Rules of Sailing rule book and I cannot find any reference to the term ‘standard boat’! I can only find rule 78 which refers to compliance with class rules and or her class racing certificate. Surely if any TY owner wants to race outside his boats class rules he has to apply for a modified CBH rating from the appropriate State authority!
I feel it’s a real worry that many TYA's and their representatives around Australia do not realize that the present CBH system is failing and not keeping up with the times by using the now available new technology. At the moment, in many cases, it is being run in conflict with the very necessary RRS rule book. Other fairer and simpler yacht racing handicapping systems are now using good computer Velocity Prediction Programs (VPP) to check out that their own measurement handicapping software for accuracy. If no one wants to believe me that the TY CBH system is now a sub standard system and not working well enough, I suggest you they go into the Castle 650 owners assoc. of Victoria's web site and compare their class rules with our RL 24 class rules. Basically a Castle 650 is anything that the builder wants to build and it is noted that the Castle 650 class builder moved the lead ballast from inside the hull to the bottom of the keel and received no change to it CBH rating!
I will finish off by saying Tim's annual report for the past season should surely be based on fact and figures gained for the year 2009/2010. I feel that his pointing the finger at our RL 24 class is wrong and he is not aware that there are three different types of sailboat class rules. Development (18 footers), Restricted (RL24) and One Design (Etchells). Surely its not the PRO or the event handicapper who should calling the shots it should be the other competitors who should be lodging a protest under the fair sailing rule.
Regards
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| | Re: From Yachting Australia's Website ( no. 2) | Alastair,
I can tell you why the RL24 class is getting a mention by Tim who is the Queensland State delegate for trailerable yachts to YA
I'm 1 of the reasons, I have been working very hard with some of the other owners of RL24's, the association and Tim in getting the RL24 fleet back up to scratch here in Queensland.
As a association member I have worked very hard in talking to all owners of RL24's up here in Queensland and with the help of follow members we are working hard on our fleet and showing then that a class standard boat can beat a modified when sailed well.
We as a fleet are sharing what we know about the boats and are helping the other boats get up to speed, with the RL24 nationals here in Southport in Jan 2011 there is some excitement happening up here in our fleet. Boats that have been sailing out of class are now looking at the boats in class and asking questions and picking the class boat owners brains.
1 of the reasons that Tim is talking about the RL24 fleet in his report is before the Queensland state titles, I was talking to him about the RL24 fleet, I was also talking to him at the titles as well, were My crew and myself on "Chill Ouat" picked up 3 Ed over all in a regatta that didn't suit RL24's at all, very light winds.
Alastair, Tim is not pointing the finger at the RL24 fleet at all, He is saying that it's great to see the fleet up and moving and that we as a fleet are getting very active again and working on our boats and class.
As for "what is a standard RL24 in Queensland" ? It's the same as all over Australia, It has to meet the class rules for a RL24 as set down by the class association.
Dave Pullin
Qld State Measurer RL24
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| | Re: From Yachting Australia's Website ( no. 2) | David
Thanks for all the info in your post. I appreciate both your efforts and aims in trying to bring a wee bit of sanity and honesty back into our class. I just hope it is not too late.
I am pleased too that YA have got involved nationally in the trailer yacht racing game by introducing a new set of National TY and SB regulations and it is noticed that both YQ and the TYA of NSW and ACT have accepted their system. I am sure that YA realise that the CBH system as it is being operated at the present time is defective and does not comply with their RRS book!
I am of the view that TY racers should go the same way that the sportsboat people have gone and that is towards a modern measurement formulae system which is checked out regularly using a VPP. We have got to get away from the much out of date and tainted CBH committee system. The sportsboat boys refer to our CBH system as being ‘dartboard handicapping’!
I bought into the RL 24 class on the cheap and having been a technical sailboat racer from way back, I was aware that the class was a restricted class. I rebuilt and re equipped my boat completely during the eighties totally in accordance with the class rules. My boat still complies with the 1989 version of the class rules. I accept now that she does not conform with the present version of the rules because back then I fitted the safer, heavier and larger mark 2 keel to my mark 1, this apparently is now a no no and I am unable to change back to the original keel! I have since then had a good look at many old swing keelers and I can tell you many of them would not pass the silly keel box being as originally constructed rule!
Every time a RL24 modifier has found a crack or defect in the class rules and took advantage of it to gain some boat speed, it’s not been his fault, it’s been the fault of the rule makers. I feel it was the defective class rules that allowed ‘Dump truck’ and Radical Lady 2 to introduce the drop keel and other go fast devices that made us all pay the price by copping an increase in CBH rating in the following year.
Tim McCall is the Queensland representative of the new national ATYSBPC and I feel he should be encouraging all TY classes to change their class rules to align them with their new ATYSBR system. I still feel he should not be wasting his time shooting from the hip by making outrageous statements in an annual report to the YA!
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| | Re: From Yachting Australia's Website ( no. 2) | Alastair
Tim was not "wasting his time shooting from the hip by making outrageous statements in an annual report to the YA!" In Queensland there are only 2 classes Blazer 23's and RL24's that sail as a class or get any numbers to a regatta or the Bay to Bay.
Tim was just stating this in his report. He was also saying that it is great to see a class, working as a class to bring boats back to class.
Now as for your boat not being class. Let's look at it. you have a hull and deck out of the RL24 mould. Your sails measure to 20 m/sq and your saying every thing in your boat meets the RL24 rule, bar your keel case.
So what changes did you do to your keel case that are any different to other RL24's with the same keel in it ?
All you did was change it to fit a MK2 RL24 class keel. Alastair, when we measure a boat for class we use common sense. As long as the changes that you made in the spirit of the class rules, your boat can still be called a RL24 class boat.
Now if you think that the class rules need to be fine tuned because you think that your boat and others fall out of class because of a loop hole in the rules about the keel case then you need to follow the class rules and submit any changes to the rules you think need to be made to the association 1 month before the AGM and then have the class vote on the changes.
Dave Pullin
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| | Re: From Yachting Australia's Website ( no. 2) | David
I see we will never agree, so I say, I wish you well and I hope you can keep striving on and hopefully correct some of the wrongs of the past. I also hope you manage to keep the RL 24s turning up at all the TY events in Queensland especially the Bay to Bay as I see it as some thing special and the No 1 TY event in Australia. I wish you all well and maybe both you and your friend Tim can maybe in a few years time tell me how I got it all wrong!
In saying the above I remember way back in the eighties being shocked the first time I raced against the new ‘dump truck’ (in the eighties) with her breakthrough laminar flow drop keel. I remember going round all the RL 24 owners in our club trying to talk them out of going over to drop keels. I was too late because when I got to ‘big deal’s’ backyard, Dick had already cut the swing keel box out and he sheepishly told me that he was expecting his new Holm brothers new drop keel within two to three weeks! Please nnote that Dump Truck complied totally with the version of the class rules we had then.
I understand that about 600 RL24s were built, so in hindsight our class should maybe have been registered with YA as a national class. This would also mean that the RL 24 class rules would have to be approved and registered by YA. Maybe the control of the class should not have been left for so long to a small group registered only in one State.
David my background is different from yours in that I have worked extensively using Australian and International engineering Standards and Codes. I detested then having to be involved with anything that looked like being a ‘kangaroo court’ process and also having to work with any State Government regulations. In both cases I have found their rulings to be very politicised and open to unethical and not so good interpretations. Australian Standard association codes are excellent and your ‘common sense’ bit only comes into use when the standard is being drafted. After the standard is printed and sold, the words may, shall and should are used and this leaves the ‘measurer’, surveyor, inspector, manufacturer, agent and retailer with clear and concise instructions without him or her having to make any ‘common sense’ interpretations.
With regard to Tim McCall’s annual report to the YA, I still standby my statement that his report is sub standard. It does not use the actual event numbers and he includes cheap and unsubstantiated digs at the RL 24 class and also the breakaway Australian Sports Boat Association (ASBA) who are using the new YV SMS handicapping system. I do notice that there was 19 SMS sportboats entered in the non championship Airlie Beach week event. Does this not put the ASBA and the SMS ahead of Tim’s ATYSBA who are using the old CBH system at their championships(they only had eight entries)?
David, the way I see it,if we have a look at the YA RRS book, no one is allowed to make a verbal allegation or complaint about a boat, a measurer, a race officer, or a handicapper as this is illegal. The only way this can be done, is by an official protest as laid down in the RRS book. This allows the protestee or protester the right of appeal to a higher authority if he or she is unhappy with the decision or procedures carried out by the protest committee. By all means if you wish, try and explain your views on the matter but there is no way you can use any common sense procedures! This is why many of ‘shoot from the hip’ operators try to discourage entrants from protesting!
With regard to your last paragraph I suggest that you put a search through this web site using Alastair and Alastair Russell and then read what I have written on swing keels, keel box fillers and centreboard boxes. If you can find anything that you think is not right please feel free to have a go at me! I think its a lot easier for me to make up a new set of class rules that fits in with my 1980’s boat, my way of thinking, age and the lack of available crew here in Paynesville and apply for a modified RL24 CBH rating from YNSW or the ATYSBPC.
I hear that YA are working on a definition on what is a sportsboat at the moment. Have you heard anything? It will be interesting to see what they come up with and if the RL 24 will be included. I personally feel that if a trailer yacht can get up on a sustained plane in 25 knots of wind it has to be classed a sportsboat. Handicapping wise without using good event computer software you cannot fairly handicap non planning boats with planning boats.
David, why don’t you ask Darryn (he is the RL24 Burra Sahib) who has just entered a new thread just above us, if his centreboard box is as originally constructed! You can maybe also ask if Remedy the RL 24 in this websites home page is really a RL24 or is she an RL24 modified!
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