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WWW.RLYACHTS.NET
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RL24, RL28, and RL34 Trailable Yachts
from Rob Legg Yachts
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RL Yacht Owner's Discussion Forum
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Return to the Forum List Status ratings | I see the latest Australian Trailable yachts and Sports boat rule has ratings for RL 24 and RL 28 also Status Slipstream but still no ratings for the Status 19/580 even though a seperate catergory for Open Boats now exists?
http://www.yachting.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/140416-Australian-Trailable-Yacht-and-Sports-Boat-Rule.pdf
Anyone know why this obvious oversight and ommission?
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| | Re: Status ratings | The Status has never been classed as a trailer sailer, hence no CBH. iF they did the numbers would be around 690-700. The open trailerable rule is for sports boats, which the Status is not...
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| | Re: Status ratings | In this 2014 version I beleive there has been a change as they now include for a Trailable open yacht see section below;
2.04 Open Trailable Yacht or Open Sports Boat:
An Open Trailable Yacht or Open Sports Boat is a trailable yacht or sports boat that does not
necessarily conform to the requirements for a Standard Trailable Yacht or Standard Sports Boat. There shall be a cockpit and provision for stowage of sails, equipment and crew effects
below deck, except that: -
Berths are not required.
The bow section of the boat shall be decked in at least level with or higher than the gunnels, with the aftermost edge of the deck being no more than 100 mm forward of the leading edge of the centreboard case.
It seems that Status's can now comply and therefore race in mixed fleets of trailables with a CBH.
Although I am not sure about the lock down centreboard requirement, anyone know if this can be done? Will check the centerboard case measurement and advise.
On my boat with the cockpit deck nearly level I measured that the leading edge of the centerboard CASE at the floor level is about directly below the after most point of the deck above(cuddy) As case case slopes forward to the floor the foremost point of the case at the top of the case is about 80 t0 90 mm (rounded edge) aft of the aftermost edge of the cuddy deck. In my case a protective piece is fitted to this corner with a square sharp edge so the measurement is about 75mm.
The foremost end of the centerboard SLOT is about 145 mm behind the aftermost point of the cuddy deck. BUT the rule says CASE not SLOt so on this point the Status complies with the general definition.
Has anyone applied for a CBH in recent years?
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| | Re: Status ratings | John
Lofty has got it wrong as he is working on the old Yachting Victorian system which is now dead in the water. The CBH rating system is now run by Yachting Australia which I think uses a secret performance formulae for first up CBH ratings. You are right, there is now a new YA division for open trailer yachts like your Status.
As there is now no class association for your boat you might have to apply for a one of kind (OAK) rating by having your boat measured and weighed privately. The measurement form and the TY class rules are in the YA website. Click on 'sports services' then 'ratings and certificates' then 'trailer yacht and sports boats'.
John I also think you should put a search through our RL website using the words 'Status 19' and you will see a copy of the old superceded class rules along with talk on a few design rating problems.
I also believe that all trailable boats and sports boats have to now have black measurement bands on their masts and booms this year.
I hope this helps
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| | Re: Status ratings | Thanks Alastair i will do the research in the past files and see if any rating measurement problems still exist under the new YA CBH system and let people know thru this page.
As a matter of interest what happened to the previous Class Association?
Perhaps it is time to consider reforming one if there is enough interest in getting it going to pursue a class CBH!
I notice there is as yet no other class in that Division
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| | Re: Status ratings | John
I am getting old and my memory is starting to fail and I cannot remember what happened to the NSW Status class association. Its strange, I can remember dogs names but not the names of their owners?
I made a mistake in my last post and I now suggest you should put a search through this website using 'Status 580' and you will see heaps more info on the Status boats.
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| | IRC Rating Rule for All | John
I do have a strong feeling that YA are already using the IRC secret formulae to calculate our new TY and sports boat ratings? Is this why under the TY and SB rule now we have to have black bands on the mast and boom. I believe their are about 300 odd yachts in Australia rated to the International IRC.
Alastair
What is so great about it?
Rate your standard production cruiser/racer, classic or hi-tech racing yacht
Great racing inshore and offshore
From small local events to major national trophies
Use the same rating in any event worldwide with an IRC class
No local handicap adjustments
Simple to calculate corrected time and position while on the water
Single number, time-on-time rating (TCC)
Calculated from basic boat data and configuration details
Physical weighing and measurement by your local IRC measurer, if required
Ability to run trial ratings to test effect of proposed changes
Simple to amend rated data during the year
Progressive approach to the rating of technical developments
Allowances for full fitout and cruising features
OK, but please can you explain the basics...?
IRC is a rating rule
IRC is a rating rule to handicap different designs of keelboats allowing them to race together; unlike a performance handicap a rating is not altered between races according to the individual boat's performance, but is based on the physical measurements of the boat.
Each boat’s rating (her ‘handicap’) is calculated using measurements of the boat; her length, weight, draft, rig size, sail area, and specific characteristics and features. The resulting time corrector, the boat’s ‘TCC’, is her handicap. The higher the TCC figure, the faster the boat's potential speed; IRC TCCs range from 0.750 to 1.900, with the majority of cruiser/racers between 0.900 and 1.100.
After a race, each boat’s elapsed time (the time she has taken to complete the course) is multiplied by her TCC to calculate her corrected time (her race time making allowance for the characteristics of the boat). The boat with the shortest corrected time is the winner of the race.
IRC is for keelboats of all size and shapes
IRC is aimed at a very wide range of keelboats of all sizes and shapes including modern production cruisers and cruiser/racers through dedicated one-off race boats, older cruisers and racers to classic yachts and superyachts. IRC is continually developed to encompass new developments in both cruisers and racers while at the same time protecting the interests of the bulk of the fleet.
IRC is a permissive rule
It is open to all types, sizes and ages of boats. IRC permits features such as asymmetric spinnakers, bowsprits, twin, triple, wing and drop keels, twin masts, gaff rigs, water ballast, canting keels, ‘code zero’ headsails, lateral daggerboards etc., and deals with these features as equitably as possible.
IRC is an unpublished rule
The methods and formulae used for the calculation of IRC TCCs are not published. This prevents designers taking advantage of the rule when designing new boats and very substantially increases the competitive lifetime of IRC rated boats. As a result, boats of all ages and types win races under IRC. Everything from classics through IOR designs to modern cruisers, cruiser/racers, and racers.
IRC is a simple rule
IRC is structured to be as simple as possible for both sailors and race administrators: there is no requirement for boats to be officially measured (unless required in individual countries). IRC accepts owner declaration of a boat’s measurements. All an owner needs to do is fill in the application form and send it to us. There is the option of an 'Endorsed' certificate, for which the data has been audited which may include official weighing and measurement.
IRC is popular
IRC is used for a huge number of races and regattas all over the world, and it would be impossible to list them all! As a taster, apart from local club races IRC is used at (among many others) well known events such as: JPMAM Round the Island Race, AAM Cowes Week, Rolex Fastnet Race, Cork Week, Voiles de St Tropez, Rolex Big Boat Series, Atlantic Rally for Cruisers, Rolex Middle Sea Race, Rolex Sydney Hobart Race, Audi Hamilton Island Race Week, Rolex China Sea Race, Singapore Straits, Phuket King's Cup, Newport Bermuda Race, Spi Ouest France, Maxi Yacht Rolex Cup and Mini Maxi Rolex World Championship, Volvo Dun Laoghaire Regatta, Block Island Race Week and the RORC's Brewin Dolphin Commodores' Cup. (Event sponsors as at June 2013).
Last year nearly 7000 boats in 30+ countries on all 6 continents held IRC certificates.
All the technical information needed to apply for an IRC certificate can be found on our website. Application forms are available from your local IRC Rule Authority.
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| | Re: Status ratings | Alastair, if I am not mistaken I think the IRC rule is a development of the Channel rule, I think that is what the C refers to?
Back at the end of the 90's I had a boat measured to Channel and I think I still have somewhere the the old channel rule and its calculation formula. I will have a look for it when I get a chance.
The latest version is probably a development from the earlier, but could give a guide to how it is formulated. Stability factor was a major component as I remember it.
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| | Re: Status ratings | John
I remember the name 'Channel Handicap' being used by the UK RORC way back before the secret Velocity Prediction Programes/formulas (VPP) came into use.
I will have to check the new rules as under the old rule if a TY failed the Stability/pull down test that you mention, it then had to pass a buoyancy test.
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| | Status Slipstream Write Up in 1988 | Status Slipstream 'hotted Up'
Sydney Morning Herald
Saturday February 13, 1988
By PETER FORBES
A YACHT that is making an interesting return to fuller production is the Status Slipstream, a 5.8-metre (19ft) trailer-sailer manufactured by Timpenny Yachts, maker of two of the first of the modern trailer-sailers, the Timpenny 670 and 770.
Jon Simmonds, of Timpenny Yachts, has been taking it easy with the production of his boats since the market turned really tough through rising interest rates in the early 1980s. Now he has decided there is again a slot in the new boat market for trailer-sailers such as his Slipstream, an adaptation of the van de Stadt day-sailer, the Status 580, which sold 70 yachts in Australia at its height.
Said Jon Simmonds last week, after we had taken the Slipstream for a sail in a mid-week Sydney Harbour race (and finished second over the line): "Yes, $15,510 seems a lot of money, but that's for a new trailer-sailer.
"A secondhand one about five years old would be about $10,000 - I work on about two-thirds the cost of a new one. After that, it may cost a further$2,000 if you needed new sails for racing, though I don't want to knock the secondhand market.
"In light of that, the new price begins to look attractive."
So apart from Simmonds price arguments, what does the Status Slipstream have going for it?
Though one must not forget that the yacht is an extremely good race performer, one of its primary attractions is that it is a light TS. This makes it towable by a medium-sized four-cylinder car which, in these days of high car prices, is a distinct advantage. With trailer, it weighs 880kg.
Which leads next to the size of the boat internally.
It is not large at 5.8 metres, but Simmonds, in his redesign of the day-sailer, has done well in providing generous room in cabin and cockpit, given the Slipstream's dimensions. However, I would dispute the claim in the brochure that the cockpit "seats six comfortably".
The cockpit may seat six comfortably during a chat at the moorings; but when sailing, and particularly racing, the cockpit, though it is a long one, gets more cramped. Nevertheless, I repeat that Simmonds has done well to provide generous bunking and seating within 5.8 metres.
For two adults and perhaps a child or two, the yacht is an excellent overnighter that is easy to get on and off the trailer and which can be towed economically.
As a racer, the Slipstream has a champion's qualities. When it was first campaigned in 1982, the Slipstream won both line and handicap honours in Division 2 of the famous Marley Point Race on Gippsland Lakes - an annual event in which any TS worth its salt competes. Up to 600 yachts compete in the overnight race each March.
In the '82 race, the Slipstream also beat quite a number of Division 1 boats.
The yacht is by Simmonds's own description a "hotted-up, high technology"boat. It came into being because of a change in the Australian Yachting Federation Racing Rules in 1981 relating to trailer-sailer yachts. The new rules meant that the Status 580 day-sailer was no longer considered a trailer-sailer, because of its lack of accommodation.
THUS the Slipstream was developed on the Status 580 foundations, with Simmonds taking the opportunity to breathe more life into the sail plan. This he boosted by 36 per cent, giving the yacht far more competitiveness in light air.
With a mylar number 1 overlapping headsail and all the necessary go-fast sail-trimming "strings" led back conveniently on top of the cabin top, it now has the high-pointing capacity and all the gear for the sail-fiddling needed to make a yacht go in competition.
We sailed her last week in not much more than about 8 knots steady from the east, but she was lively and responsive and beat all but one of a fair-sized Division 2, though, with a tough handicap to beat, she ran in 10th on handicap.
In the light air, the Slipstream was well balanced, but then so are most yachts in such weather. In the gusts, she gave an indication that she might also be good-tempered in heavier conditions.
Simmonds assured me that on the previous Saturday, when thunder, lightning, torrential rain and finally a 35-40 knot northerly blasted the Sydney Harbour Royal Australian Navy Sailing Association (RANSA) Bicentennial Regatta fleet, the Slipstream was able to hold its No 1 mylar headsail for all but the last tight reach, when it was finally lowered for comfort's sake.
On that evidence, the ballast in the bilge (40kg) and in the steel swing keel (129kg) does its job well without detracting from performance. The yacht won its division in the RANSA race.
Total ballast is thus 169kg, against a sail plan of 23 square metres of working area (mainsail 13 sq m, jib 10 sq m) and a spinnaker of 32 sq metres on a mast that rises 8.83 metres (29ft) above its step on the cabin top.
With a spinnaker of that size, which is by no means small for the boat, I would suggest you would have to know what you were doing if it were up in brisk conditions.
The Slipstream fractional rig is simple and easy to de-rig. A fully battened mainsail rolls on its battens conveniently and the mast swings down on a hinged step, which makes for easy lowering.
The sail area, as mentioned above, has been boosted 36 per cent over the sail carried by the original day-sailer, but one reef in the mainsail and a change to a number 2 headsail will bring this back to the day-sailer sail area.
This is good, since Simmonds says the original day-sailer rig was a good performer in heavy weather. And with a second reef, the Slipstream can go even one better, down to what is virtually a storm main.
As for self-righting, Simmonds says he has had the mast in the water when carrying an oversized spinnaker, but both the for'd hatch and the cabin hatch were clear of the water even though the hull was on its side.
The forward hatch allows for easier spinnaker work and mooring, but would need to be closed against waves in heavy weather.
© 1988 Sydney Morning Herald
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| | Re: Status ratings | Alastair there is a thread discussion here in 2010 on yardsticks and CBH rating for the Status 580;
http://www.rlyachts.net/forum.asp?ID=3873#ID3883
Which decided the Status yardstick at the time was 116.4 and CBH of 0.690 using a K figure at the time of 80.3 (varies annually)
Where CBH = 80.3/yardstick
Similar conclusions here in 2006, probably with similar K factor?;
http://www.rlyachts.net/forum.asp?ID=2039#ID2039
The Slipstream CBH was =0.710
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| | Re: Status ratings | Alastair there is a thread here in Nov 2006,
http://www.rlyachts.net/forum.asp?ID=2083#ID2083
which discusses proposed Class rules for 580 (presented here) and being prepared for;
''Hopefully, if there is consensus, these rules will form the basis for an application to the Victorian Yachting Council for a CBH and thus a derived VYC Yardstick that are a true reflection of the Status 580 and not the Slipstream (CBH of 0.71) as is the case now.''
and response from you that;
''I think you may have trouble getting an YV CBH rating for the Status as it does not comply with the definition of a type one or two trailer yacht. This is not really a major problem as I feel the TY CBH system is at the point of collapse anyway (The TY CBH system has folded in NSW). I suggest you get a set of class rules up and running and approved and then go for a off the beach YV yardstick number.''
Nothing found yet on any later outcomes or application, so we can assume these will have been carried out, if at all after 2006?
Alastair were the class rules finalised and where can they be accessed?
Found Status 580 and Status 19 Class rules in this thread;
http://www.rlyachts.net/forum.asp?ID=1967#ID1971
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| | Re: Status ratings | Alastair
The 2014 rule has a similar section on Stability as below;
14.0 HORIZONTAL STABILITY FACTOR (HSF)
14.01 Boats may comply with the Horizontal Stability Factor (HSF) as defined for Trailable Yacht races by the YA Special Regulations Category 6
14.02 Determination of the HSF shall be at the owner’s risk and cost and no liability will be accepted by the club, the State authority, YA or any of its members, officers or servants.
14.03 All boats not complying with Rule 14.0 HSF shall have a minimum keel / overall boat weight ratio i.e., (weight of keel fin and bulb assembly / weight of boat empty) of : -
0.20 : 1 All boats with CBH less than 0.801
0.35 : 1 All boats with CBH of .801 and greater
Or comply with Section 9.02 of this Rule
Fastenings and other components of the keel assembly not permanently fixed to the keel shall be excluded from the keel weight.
15.0 BUOYANCY
15.01 Boats not complying with the HSF at Section 14.01 shall have sufficient buoyancy to support the boat, its crew and stores above the water when fully swamped.''
9.02 A trailable yacht or sports boat issued with a CBH by an MYA prior to the entry into force of this Rule in July 2007 shall be accepted as an eligible boat and as complying with the Rule.
As I read it if a boat does not comply with 14.01 then it has to meet two requirements; 14.03 and 15.01;
The first requirement is a keel/boat wt ratio;
Preliminary ratio of keel wt /total wt for the Status is about
120/400 = 0.3 so for a boat with CBH 0f 0.690 this is higher than the 0.2 needed so should be acceptable.
The second requirement is;
Flotation, anyone know if the flooded Status will support the boat, gear, crew etc above the water??? Has anyone done such a test, theoretically it should self drain ( any design calculations available) but does practice support this.
If Status can meet 14.01 we may not have to even go there!
14.01 Needs a seperate evaluation, as I think it involves a pull down test I will check.
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| | Re: Status ratings | As I thought the AYF Special Regulations Appendix B amounts to a pull down test as follows;
AYF Special Regulations
Clauses relating to Cat 6 stability calculation;
Appendix B page 62 for Category 5 and 6 races requires either alternative ;
ORCi >103, IRC cat A B or C, IRC SSS BV of > 8, SV of =<14, RMI of =>1.1, or
Horizontal Stability Factor (HSV) Calculated as follows;
Note (This is the only alternative to meet the CBH rule 14.01)
Appendix B page 65
The HSF shall be the test mass to hold the mast in horizontal athwartships position when the mass is suspended from the hounds, it shall be not less than;
TM = (3.0x LB Sq +11.0 L)/IM + 0.2 Hsq in Kgs
Where L = LOA, B = max beam, IM = sheer to hounds, H = mast length above step
The last term may be omitted where the mast is effectively watertight and buoyant. (not the case with the Status)
In other words a pull down test to the point where the mast is horizontal to the water. (Without flooding which would increase the righting force needed considerably) The righting force is measured at the hounds (where the forestay meets the mast.) Test is carried out without sails hoisted, centreboard down, rudder on.
TM is calculated beforehand and the measured force must be equal or exceed the calculated one. A calibrated digital meter is used.
Note - It would be wise to carry out a HSF self righting test informally before submitting a boat to measurement and test.
From the class rules we know LOA = 5.8m, B = 2.2m, however mast length (H) is not given in the class rules nor is (IM) Sheer to hounds measurement, so this may vary? An approximation by measuring my boat would be,
H = 7.48 (not including ht of crane) say 7.5m, IM = hounds to step + step to sheer = 5.84 + 0.45 =6.29 say 6.3m
So TM = (3x5.8x2.2x2.2 + 11 x 5.8)/6.3 + 0.2x7.5x7.5
TM = 34.75 kg measured at the hounds, mast horizontal
So if anyone wants to do an informal pull down test to check feasibility, that is approx the force you want to measure or greater. My trailer is out of action so unable to do anytime soon others are welcome to try in meantime. Let me know the figure through email.
While you are at it flood the boat by pulling the mast further down and adding weight to the low side tank then let mast go see if it rights itself then place 3 adults aboard with life jackets on (1 to equate with sails and gear) then see if the boat self drains. Again let me know by email the outcomes of these tests.
If anyone wants to know how to easily do a pulldown then ask me by email.
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